The joys of giving professional advice

[rikibeth]

eternaleponine is going off to graduate school at University of Michigan at the end of the summer. We were chatting, and she was talking about having to learn to do domestic things like cooking and grocery shopping for herself.

Naturally, I stressed the importance of having Good Knives.

I told her that to start, you really only need three: an 8" chef's knife, a paring knife, and an offset bread knife.

We looked online for my Dexter-Russell offset bread knife, but the exact one I have was not to be found. The Forschner actually looked closer to my model than the Dexter-Russell white-handled one. This one looked the most like what I have, but I knew nothing about that brand's blade quality, never having used one, so I suggested sticking with the Forschner, because they're the same people as Victorinox, which means Swiss Army knives, and it's hard to go wrong there.

Oh, and a sharpening steel because it's important to keep the straight-edged knives in good condition.

And a 12x18 acrylic cutting board. Because they're dishwasher safe and bleachable, and will cushion the knife.

I suggested buying three cutting boards in different colors -- one for raw meats, one for fruits, vegetables, and other ready-to-serve foods, and a third one reserved for garlic and onion to segregate the stinky things -- but even though the colored cutting boards were only $6 each, we agreed that it would probably be too much trouble to train a roommate to follow ServSafe procedures, so one would do for the basics.

Good trustworthy knives are THE most important things in a kitchen. And eternaleponine said she only had crap knives in her current collection of kitchen stuff.

I love the Internet. I got to give good advice AND go shopping with my friend, and help her get the right things, even though physically we're two hours' drive apart.

We probably ought to get together in person again before she goes, though, so I can show her the Really Cool Way to dice an onion with the offset knife.

eternaleponine, got a Tuesday you can trade off with anyone?

Comments

Do you recommend the acrylic cutting board over wood?

[mtfierce.livejournal.com]

Having read some of the more recent studies on wood cutting boards being better than plastic with safety in food prep. in mind, I've been considering getting a new cutting board. (Mine's a cheap dollar-store style plastic I bleach regularly.) As for the knives, well... first I'll learn how to use them, and THEN I'll pay for the good stuff.

Re: Do you recommend the acrylic cutting board over wood?

[djinnthespazz.livejournal.com]

One good knife will change that tune.

A girl needs a knife.

[mtfierce.livejournal.com]

All the better to cut my own fingers off, my dear?

Re: A girl needs a knife.

[djinnthespazz.livejournal.com]

You are far more likely to cut yourself with a badly balanced, dull blade.

Unintentionally I mean...

Re: Do you recommend the acrylic cutting board over wood?

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

Wood has a lovely feel to it, and, indeed, has natural antimicrobial properties; I am very fond of my Farberware wood cutting board with the channel for catching meat juices. I also have some really beautiful marquetry ones that I can use as cheese boards for entertaining.

The trouble is, I have also wrecked more than one wooden board, because they can't go in the dishwasher without risking warping, splitting, or coming unglued if they're not a single block... and I am horribly lazy about handwashing things. Acrylic boards go very happily in the dishwasher, which sanitizes them quite well.

Three $6 cutting boards, color-coded, will go a long way towards food safety, because if you discipline yourself to stick to the code, you'll never cut raw fruits or vegetables or cheese or bread on the board that's touched the raw meat. No cross-contamination. And dishwasher or bleach will take care of sanitizing.

If you have to hand-wash anyway... you might do better with wood.

And as for the knives? The ones I pointed to are NOT expensive. That was sort of the point -- they are excellent quality, and all under $25 each. The paring knife is under $5! And, believe me, you won't really learn to use them properly if all you have to work with is crap.

Three decent knives, for less than $60. And they'll serve you for YEARS.

A girl needs a knife, and I've got mine.

Re: Do you recommend the acrylic cutting board over wood?

[kcarp.livejournal.com]

Another benefit of color-coded cutting boards:

Never again will you slice a pie's worth of rhubarb only to realize that the whole batch tastes like onion. (Because you recently cut onions on that board.)

BLEH!

I would also recommend the THIN THIN THIN (and flexible!) cutting boards if you do a lot of on-the-go cooking. Some don't work in the dishwasher, but they weigh nothing and take up no space (eek! anti-matter!)

Katy, prodigious amateur (did you know that the 'obsolete' definition of prodigious is 'ominous'? Hee!)

[cherrybutterfly.livejournal.com]

Can I quote you on that a girl needs a knife and I got mine LOL Cool!

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

It's a line from the song "A Girl Needs A Knife," performed by the Flash Girls (Emma Bull and Lorraine Garland), and written by the inimitable Neil Gaiman.

The whole song is incredibly cool.

[djinnthespazz.livejournal.com]

*shakes head*

Still have yet to get the Flash Girls, years after your intitial recommendation... slow, I am...

What do you use the knives for?

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Yeah, yeah, cutting...

Anyway, I'm thinking of how I use knives, and I haven't used my paring knife in two years. The only use I can think of for a paring knife is for taking the skin off apple slices for pie. But I know people really adore their paring knives, so I'm wondering what they do differently than I...

I don't own a serrated knife, much less an offset serrated bread knife. If I had to cut bread, I'd definitely get one, but I rarely make bread or buy uncut bread. I think it would be nice to have a serrated knife for cutting watermelon, but I don't know for sure... What else do you do with your serrated knife?

And is it easy to learn how to use a sharpening steel? I'm with you totally on the need for good sharp knives, but I've always heard that knife-sharpening is something that people usually do wrong...

Re: What do you use the knives for?

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

The paring knife is for any job where the chef's knife would be awkwardly big.

The serrated knife? What DON'T I use it for? I use it for EVERYTHING at work except mincing herbs. It's much better for cutting bell peppers than a straight edged knife. Likewise slicing tomatoes. And citrus. I use it to slice the rind off of honeydew and cantaloupe melons for fruit salad, and then because it's in my hand it's just as easy to dice the melon into chunks with it. I can make lovely even parallel cuts in an onion with it, first one way and then the other, and then slice it on the third axis and have perfect little dice fall away. (Okay, at home I do that with a chef's knife, but the chef's knives at work never seem to stay in good shape, even with regular use of a steel, and the offset serrated just does a better job.) I core tomatoes with the tip of that knife, even though most people use a paring knife. I slice strawberries into quarters. (Most people use a paring knife for that too.) I slice sandwich rolls in half, and split cakes into two layers. I slice cheese off a block with it.

The Dexter-Russell offset serrated knife has truly become an extension of my hand.

You can see why I was so annoyed when shadowflyer used it to trim his bamboo drum broom, right?

Re: What do you use the knives for?

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Yeah... My mom had a pair of glorious silver scissors when I was little that were *only* for fabic, never paper. She knew... When we couldn't find other scissors and used them, she knew...

I've never figured out what's best for cheese-slicing. Serration... noted.

I think I've seen the onion-cutting technique, but I don't remember... Does it require cutting towards your hand? I mean, how do you hold the onion? Is it dangerous? How do you get the skin off the onion beforehand without cutting it?

Is the offset serrated better than an um... onset? serrated? Seems like you couldn't apply as much force...

I use the chef's knife for everything. But I think the main thing is that I don't do such a variety of stuff as you in the kitchen...

Re: What do you use the knives for?

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

Okay. The onion thing. Without bothering to take the skin off the onion, slice off the top. Then take a small slice off the circumference to make a flat surface to rest it on. Now you have free corners from which to peel the skin. Do it.

Lay the onion down flat on the bit you sliced off. Hold it in a claw-like grip near the top of its curvature. Make even parallel cuts, as far apart as the size you want your dice, from the stem end nearly but not completely to the root end, knife blade parallel to the work surface. I prefer to start near the bottom and work up.

Now make even parallel cuts with the knife pointing stem-to-root and perpendicular to the work surface, again, almost but not quite entirely to the root end.

Now start at the stem end and make as if to slice round slices off the onion. These slices will fall apart into lovely diced onion. Yay.

I don't know what principle is behind making the offset better, but I know I can get a lot more precision with it than I can with a conventionally-shaped bread knife or a long knife with a serrated edge. I go with what works.

And your mother knew about the silver scissors because cutting paper DULLS them.

[princejvstin.livejournal.com]

I learned from My Friends the Olsons™ the lore of having good (ie, not grocery store bought) knives.

I am not sure about the bread knife being one of the three, although I'd make it my fourth.

I'd suggest:

Chef's Knife
Paring Knife
Serrated 5" utility knife

I do need a bread knife myself. That can be #4. since #3 should work well for the bread in the meantime and for other purposes.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I think I use my offset serrated knife for the same things you use your 5" serrated utility knife for.

[djinnthespazz.livejournal.com]

I need to do that cutting board routine, multi colors... it's good.

I am lazy, and use my chef's knife for just about everything. I do have a long serrated blade that cuts bread just fine, but it was a bank giveaway and is not set up to be comfortable for regular use.

I actually have two chef's knives... both inherited from grandparents... and not very expensive... one's a no-name and one's Chicago...

I, too, need to learn how to properly sharpen steel. Maybe Sunday at my dad's... he used to sharpen my jack-knives so razorish that you could actually brush them over your skin lightly and take the hair off your arm... *grin*

Every girl scout needs a sharp jack-knife!

[eternaleponine.livejournal.com]

I can get any day you like off, if you give me enough notice. I just have to know before the end of this month so I can ask for it off for next month. Although July is a bit hairy, because other people have already put in vacation requests. But I could probably manage. :)

Gotta say

[madpiratebippy.livejournal.com]

My best friend Avery sells knives for a living, she has since she was 12. On top of being a fantastic person, she REALLY knows her shit. Her website is www.knifegirlusa.com, which I don't think has a full list of all the things you can buy from her, but if you e-mail her and she'll call you and go over what she can and can't get for you, and the quality of various knives, and the type of metal they're made of, etc, etc, etc.

Oh yeah, she's also the first person in her family to go to college and she's trying to go to medical school to become a doctor, so I can tell you that the profits are going to a good cause.

Bippy