Torchwood: Children of Earth

[rikibeth]

First of all, I wanted to say that I waited to watch it until it hit BBC America, and circumstances delayed me watching Episode 5 until the Sunday marathon, so I haven't read any spoiler threads from people who watched it earlier. Please DO link me back to your posts in the comments.

With that out of the way:



Killing Ianto was NOT OKAY. It wasn't okay for Joss to kill Wash, and it wasn't okay for Russell T. Davies to kill Ianto. Jack/Ianto was a huge factor in why I was watching at all, and, DAMMIT, I'd like for the lovely boys kissing NOT to get killed for the dramatic effect. BOO.

Jack sacrificing his grandson was ALSO NOT OKAY. And you know why? It's because they denied the kid any agency. Yes, he was a child, but that doesn't make him a POSSESSION. Even if he's young, you don't get to decide FOR him, and not tell him what he's doing. You know who understood that? talandra. If she'd been writing it, Jack would have explained what was going on, and ASKED his grandson to do it. Yes, the grandson was young, and yes, Jack is old and wily and could easily have laid it out in such a way that the boy would say yes with a brave smile and you could argue forever over whether he Really Understood what he was doing, but, done right, the boy would have gone out believing in himself as a hero. Or, if you want to tear out the hearts of everyone watching, assuming they still HAVE THEM after IANTO DIED, the boy would have taken on the task BELIEVING he was going to be a hero, and then when the pain hit he'd start begging and trying to take it back, like a soldier in the trenches in WWI when the mustard gas came on. But it'd be too late. That'd fit the darkness they were trying to give it, and it wouldn't have been as WRONG as making the child an UNKNOWING tool.

...why, yes, it does seem that I have very strong feelings about agency. Funny, that.

Other minor notes: got earwormed with "Guns of Brixton" when the soldiers were rounding up the kids at the council estates, and had an interesting idea about how the police could have put themselves in opposition to the army -- Gwen's old colleague, if let in on it, could have radioed headquarters to send out a van, and loaded the ten-quid-a-kids into it, with a pretext of "protective custody, illegal day care," and it would at least have delayed the soldiers rounding up THAT batch for a little while, because they wouldn't be where they were expected to be.

Okay, discuss.

Comments

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

I kept expecting Ianto's death to be faked (surely Torchwood had devices to help against nasty bugs).

My cynical reaction to the death of Ianto and the Hub is that RTD wanted to destroy as much of the show as possible before the next producer takes over the show.

It looked like Andy (Cardiff policeman) kept trying to radio back for help, but he wasn't getting through (until Gwen and Andy arrived, they didn't know there was more than two kids at the house). I still don't know why Andy removed his bullet-proof vest before joining the melee.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

My cynical reaction to the death of Ianto and the Hub is that RTD wanted to destroy as much of the show as possible before the next producer takes over the show.

That's my belief as well.

My problem with CoE--which I deliberately did not watch after hearing a billion spoilers about it--is not just the agency issue, but the fact that I like to be able to tell heroes from villains.

Jack giving the aliens twelve kids back in the 1960s and being perfectly okay with sacrificing his own grandson is NOT OKAY. And he should know that it is not okay! This is a man who traveled with the Doctor, for God's sake! Remember the Doctor? Not crazy about killing ANYONE. This is a man (well, Gallifreyan) who has been known to plead with the bad guys not to harm innocents. Yes, the Doctor can kill, and yes, he is totally badass when he fights...but his default setting is "save people." He does not collaborate with his enemies, especially not when innocents are at risk. And if it looks like he is collaborating, it's probably a trick.

Jack, unaccountably, does not seem to have learned this.

"You want kids, strange and powerful alien entities? Sure! Take your Chosen One, fairies! Take your--literal--crack babies, alien ambassadors! Why should I fight for an innocent just because stealing children is wrong? You're much more powerful than I am, and I would lose."

(Yeah, I know Ianto takes a stand in the end, as does Jack. But that's not enough.)

So Jack, to me, is not a hero. Gwen is not the moral center of Torchwood to me, either--because SHE WENT ALONG WITH THIS. You don't get to be the moral center if you don't take a moral stand against your collaborator of a boss when it's inconvenient. I'm sorry, but you just don't.

And Ianto's death bugs me, because it seems like just one more example of Bury Your Gays. It's an old trope in literature, movies and television. Basically, it says that you can have gays, bisexuals and lesbians in a story...as long as they die before they end.

Now, let's take a look at Torchwood, shall we?

Owen was paired with both Jack and Ianto. He ended up dead. (Resurrected briefly, but he was still killed.)

Toshiko was paired with a female "butterfly alien" called Mary. Mary was killed by the end of the episode. Tosh died several episodes later.

The real Jack Harkness--the one whose name Barrowman!Jack appropriated--was homosexual. He shared one passionate kiss with Barrowman!Jack and died in an exploding plane the next day, and is officially missing in action.

Barrowman!Jack is omnisexual--he'll screw ANYTHING. He's also died and been resurrected so many times that he ought to have a revolving door in his coffin.

Ianto was in a relationship with Barrowman!Jack, which was getting serious...at least as far as Ianto was concerned. And of course, he died. Because of a virus. A virus that was instantly fatal.

No, this doesn't give me AIDS vibes at ALL.

So while I've heard about CoE, I have to say that all of the things that people have been stressing as notable are the same things that convinced me to stop watching Torchwood last year.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

Have to leave for work, but, short reply: 1) I agree heartily about the Kill You Gays trope and I HATE IT TOO, and 2) I'm a little more tolerant of protagonists who do morally unacceptable things, because I was in a Star Wars game where the GM (the above-referenced talandra, olav ha'shalom) used to keep putting us in terrible situations like that, where there were no morally clean choices. And we were Jedi! Of course, her players had a tendency, when it got too horrifying, to take the "screw these negotiations, we'll blow up the planet and argue later" approach, so... it evened out.

[eponis.livejournal.com]

Quick note as I dash off for the day (Rikibeth, I do want to write a longer response, as you raise a lot of excellent points) -- in fairness, what you're describing could also be described as "everyone on Torchwood is bisexual, and everyone on Torchwood dies (except Gwen and Jack because he can't)."

That said, the fact that the one surviving human is married and pregnant, and has only shown interest in women when being affected by alien hormones, does still send off a certain "heteros are the future!" vibe. As a whole, though, I'm more inclined to blame everyone dying on his irritating tendency to raise dramatic stakes by killing characters we like.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

As a whole, though, I'm more inclined to blame everyone dying on his irritating tendency to raise dramatic stakes by killing characters we like.

Yeah. That. And probably related to the way Joss Whedon won't let a happy relationship survive. Gwen may be married and pregnant, but she and Rhys are more conflicted than Jack and Ianto were.

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

When Jack gave up the original 12 kids in the 1960s, the 456 aliens were extorting the humans (give us the kids, your planet doesn't get destroyed, and we'll leave you alone). Giving up the orphaned kids was wrong, but at the time the humans were told that the kids will be unharmed and live forever.

It wasn't until the 456 aliens returned and begin their extortion racket again that we learned how evil they really are.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

Once you pay Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane. He shouldn't have given up the orphans. I can understand why he did, but, historically, that sort of bargain is a trap.

[donnad.livejournal.com]

I agree, it was not okay to kill Ianto.
As for Jack's son, I also agree. The boy should have been told what would happen and given the option of being the hero and possibly dying or not. He was old enough to make that decision.
When I was watching it, I didn't think Jack would do it. I actually said out loud, "He wont do it, he's changed, the old Jack would have, but not the new Jack, he's more human now." But I was wrong. Apparently they wanted to show that in reality he hadn't changed and his need for vengence against the alien for killing Ianto was stronger than his blood ties to the child.

I'm not sure I agree with the "bury the gays" theory above. I mean didn't Gwen have a passionate moment or two with a female alien once as well? And she survived. I think they were just killing everyone off because they wanted the series to end. Like many books, at the end they have all these people that the author doesn't want to have to even think about writing about anymore, or want to have to, when their fans want more about certain people. They killed off the possibility of any spinoffs to the series. If they reserrect the series it wont be the same series. I know many people have said Torchwood is about Gwen, but it wouldn't be the same without Jack. It would be a totally different show.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I don't think it was vengeance for Ianto -- the nasty calculus of harm, destroy one child to save millions, was actually sort of reasonable. I mean, we've all read "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas." And Jack DID walk away, although AFTER he'd accepted the bargain.

It was that he treated a child -- a sentient being, however young -- as a possession and a tool, rather than as another person who had the right to decide if he was willing to face death -- that really, really bothered me.

[kagyakusha.livejournal.com]

I've heard that they were trying to Hay's Code the show. Not Cool.
Either way, I'm revolted by Jack killing his own grandson.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I don't care if it was his own grandson or a random kid off the street. My sticking point about agency stands!

[kagyakusha.livejournal.com]

I probably would have been upset about a random kid off the street too. Your point about agency is a good one.

[shadowflyer.livejournal.com]

I had a lot of catching up to do with Torchwood, and now I'm not quite sure I want to do it. At least not past season 2. I think, though, that this has more to do with Russel Davies' auteur mindset than with Burying the Gays - the more I hear about Rusty, the more it seems like he decided he's going to break all his toys so nobody else can play with them. (Or, in Jack's case, so nobody else will want to.)

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

It's a good show, although you won't get the same joy out of Jack/Ianto OTP as I do, obviously. Worth watching, just like Firefly and Serenity.

I'm so not watching any future seasons, though. Nothing left to care about.

[dana325.livejournal.com]

I am totally with you! The last two episodes just troubled me on too many levels.

- Jacks grandchild should have had a voice rather then just pathetic confusion. (Actually I'd rather have seen Clem survive to this point and sacrifice himself. All that excellent acting and his only purpose was to be a victim.)

- Ianto not ok. Wash in Serenity also not ok. I don't mind the occasional heroic or really tragic end. I like a good dose of dark in my sci fi. Both deaths were too much for me though.

- I wanted lots of people to take at least a bit more of a heroic stand against such a horrific crime. I wanted the bureaucrat to try to get something out the the press before his end. Why does no one ask "What will happen 40 years from now"??


- I am cynical about politicians .. but the conversations in the war room went way beyond any suspension of disbelief I could muster.

I could go on ..but I wont. *sigh*

Frank actually had trouble sleeping last night because he kept re-writing the show in his head.