Finished with HBP.

[rikibeth]

Yeah. Well. I hadn't expected to be done this soon, but circumstances... um... happened.

See, we had it on Amazon pre-order. And I knew Christy would get first crack at it 'cause she paid for it. So I wasn't expecting to be able to START until today.

Got home from work yesterday morning, and two things: I wanted to sleep, and the book hadn't arrived yet.

I got a couple hours of sleep after shadowflyer fed me, but he managed to wake me up as he was leaving for a recording session. And told me I might not want to look at LJ, 'cause his friendslist was spoileriffic. I explained that pretty much everyone on mine had pledged to use cut tags, and he said "but people are using spoilery ICONS on the comms," and I said "I dropped most of my comms and I don't subscribe to the ones you do, no [Unknown site tag], none of your others." Then I must have gone back to sleep for a few minutes because I dreamed that he told me that it was George who died, which did not faze me.

Well, having been teased like that, I couldn't sleep properly. So I dragged myself down to the computer. Let me take this moment to praise my friendslist for being vigilant with the cut-tags and NOT using spoilery icons. I am now going to have to go back to where everyone started reacting and read what all of you had tosay under your cut tags.

But anyway, even though I was not spoiled by my friendslist, I found myself with a very distressed atalantapendrag IMing me. Now, mind you, the hardcopy still hadn't arrived. But she was so distressed that I went ahead and started reading the online text version she had a link to, so I could talk about it with her.

She kept me company all through my read-through. And I tried to distract her with scattered bits of RP along with my commentary. I read it for about eight hours straight.

Um... damn.

I'll go through the chatlog and extract my comments... but for right now, I am coping with having Immortal Beloved knocked into a cocked hat.

Well, sort of. The first half, the MWPP-era half, stands with very few changes. Several of our fanon bits are now canon, including the absolutely crucial plot hinge of the soul jar. Where the heck did she get the name "horcrux" for it, anyway? It was nice to see tandem Apparation/Apparition (when did she change THAT, too?) confirmed, and it's still POSSIBLE to stretch the principles to have allowed Severus to Apparate directly to Evan without knowing exactly where he was, if he put enough determination behind his visualization of Evan himself, I think. The slight change in his mother's name and the family background is trivial, in terms of plot, although the family crypt thing might need some shifting.

But, well, the second half that includes the resurrection is now wildly AU. I can see how to make it compliant... but until book 7, there's really no point. And Nemesis is just impossible as it stands. Although, entertainingly, the ritual that broke the anti-Apparation wards on Azkaban is still pretty plausible... timing shifted, maybe, and Severus' reaction would have been colder and less angsty, but...

Whatever. My fic's AU, and I'll deal.

I am reserving judgement on characterization until book 7.

GOD, some of the scenes read as if Jo took 'em straight out of fanfics.

Dumbledore NEVER understood where Severus was coming from, did he? He didn't even fucking TRY.

I have some thoughts about the whole "power of love/able to love/pure of heart" thing, but they're a little incoherent. I have no problem with the reading that Voldemort's evil came about because he was incapable of love. But as for that pure of heart thing? If Jo is suggesting that ONLY the pure of heart are capable of love, I have a big problem with that. I could agree that as long as someone is capable of love, there's the potential of redemption from evil, atonement for evil acts, etc... I would disagree STRONGLY that committing evil acts RENDERS you incapable of love and puts you beyond hope. It could, certainly, but it doesn't HAVE to mean that.

I couldn't care less about the teenage romantic issues, really, so I won't address them. Except to say that I think Pansy is the biggest fag hag at Hogwarts.

Remus/Tonks... dude, how many of us have written those words coming out of Remus' mouth, but addressed to Harry, huh? And I think it's a damned good thing she's a Metamorphmagus, because she is SO going to have to be a bloke and top him a lot of the time, because I still think he's mostly GAY GAY GAY. But that's not to say it couldn't work. I can pout because we wanted it to be Tonks/Charlie, and this leaves Charlie all alone, but that wasn't central in any case.

Percy... I cannot tell you how much my heart goes out to him. Horrid, horrid siblings. Everything Azalais has written about Weasley family dysfunction is SO TRUE. Poor Percy-love.

I'm winding down. I'll read all of your stuff and comment. Comments welcome here too.

She better hurry up and write book 7.

Comments

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

where does you fanfic live and under what name?
Read it straght thru myself last night. Still hoping Snape turns out on the good side, glad draco not comic book evil, agree with some of the stuff seeming like fanfic, but at least no lemon sherberts.

[hardvice.livejournal.com]

GOD, some of the scenes read as if Jo took 'em straight out of fanfics.

PRECISELY what I thought.

Ditto for Remus/Tonks ... I was actually squicked by that. It's just so out of left field, and it certainly does little to detract from people's notions that Tonks is Jo's new Mary Sue.

[gem225.livejournal.com]

Tonks/Charlie would have been a cool pairing, but I have no problem with Remus being with Tonks now. I never expected him to mourn for Sirius forever. I still wish Sirius hadn't died, though. *sigh* He and Remus were a wonderful pairing.

I hope that we don't have to wait two years for the next book, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did.

one more thing

[gem225.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry about your story becoming AU, and I look forward to reading more of it soon. I've enjoyed the first few parts a lot. :-D

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

The fanfic -- all 40 chapters of Immortal Beloved, 10 chapters of sequel Nemesis, and a smattering of standalones -- is at vlvteenthestral.

They definitely spent as much time pouring drinks as in fanon!

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I wasn't squicked, 'cause I've written a little of it... two short pieces, and I kind of assumed it was a shag-of-opportunity, not Twooo Wuuuuv, but... I can see it. And I still amuse myself with the genderbentness of it.

Re: one more thing

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

yay, reading! Comments, leave me comments!

Two years would suck because I am already thinking about a revised plotline from ch. 26 on, although probably won't do it even after #7.

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

I've also seen some remus /tonks fic, not too out there

Re: one more thing

[gem225.livejournal.com]

I'll hope that we get the next book next summer. I doubt that it'll come sooner. I'd love to be wrong, though.

couple quick thoughts

[panzerschrek.livejournal.com]

"Dumbledore NEVER understood where Severus was coming from, did he? He didn't even fucking TRY."

I don't think it was a lack of trying, per se... Dumbledore is, hmmmmmm.... imagine Gandalf with a Pollyanna complex... Everyone has their blindspots. Mine own suspicion is that Dumbledore, on some level, felt guilty for not realizing what Tom Marvolo Riddle was and was capable of and wanted to atone -- to save the one he thought he could save -- noble, but oh so naive...


"But as for that pure of heart thing? If Jo is suggesting that ONLY the pure of heart are capable of love, I have a big problem with that."

Not what I walked away from Dumbledore's speech with... Harry is special because he's... not pure of heart, not innocent, but something in the same vein. The easiest way to say it is that Harry is so noble he makes my jaws ache.

"Several of our fanon bits are now canon, including the absolutely crucial plot hinge of the soul jar."

Any bets on where the last soul fragment is hidden?

On the other hand, I really did enjoy Dumbledore getting Harry off the prophecy, pointing out that it really didn't matter... Was nice to see a lot of what I saw coming is now canon... really wanna hit the last book, just to find out what the ending is... kinda hoping for a happy one -- yeah, I'm an optimist -- just don't tell anyone.

[shoeless-girl.livejournal.com]

I'm still firmly clinging to the "Snape is redeemable" theory. To me it fits perfectly. I'm sure you've seen it all over the place on your flist (I know you must have some fellow Snape fans *g*) but what essentially sums it up for me is that DD begged and that Severus lost it when Harry called him a coward.

Um... hopefully that was coherant enough

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I was all good with it until I read junediamanti's post about character issues and how it's clear now that Snape is a big ol' wanker who never grew UP and there's no way he's a romantic hero or even a romantic anti-hero 'cause he's not romantic, he's self-centered and bratty, and he MIGHT still be against Voldemort but where's his motive?

I swear, though, if he's on Voldemort's side it's only because he needs to get Voldie's superior knowledge of horcruxes so he can finally bring Evan back, and he doesn't care about anything else one way or the other.

[ghilledhu.livejournal.com]

But, well, the second half that includes the resurrection is now wildly AU.

Welcome to the joys of fanficcing for a series that's incomplete. Pretty much all of my "X" fanfics have been rendered AU -- either one waits for the series to be complete before fanficcing, or one accepts that the author is most likely not going to be reading your mind. :)

Dumbledore NEVER understood where Severus was coming from, did he? He didn't even fucking TRY.

...um? Not sure where you're getting that. Dumbledore trusted and defended Snape, in the face of lots of people's personal dislike and suspicion of the man, and in the face of what appeared to be pretty strong evidence that he'd sided with Voldemort, through nearly six entire books. Furthermore, we don't know what Dumbledore was begging for at the end -- maybe he knew he was dying, and wanted it finished quickly?

My personal theory on Snape is that JKR wants us to wonder at this point what side he's on, and will make it clear in the final book. Remember, at the beginning he swore to defend and help Draco in his assigned task (which we now know to be killing Dumbledore), and to finish the task if Draco failed (which he clearly did). If Snape is still on the side of the Order, he's in a terrible bind -- he couldn't refuse to swear the oath, and now if he breaks it, he's dead. Literally. So he continues to play his part, up to and including killing Dumbledore.

Snape is a Slytherin. He'll want to keep himself alive rather than dying a noble (and most likely futile) death. He's also not stupid -- if he stays alive, stays close to Voldemort, he stands a much better chance of helping to bring him down in the end. Keep your enemies closer.

Of course, if it turns out Snape really HAS turned evil (or had been evil all along), then his actions are what they appeared. And, to be honest, that doesn't strike me as very likely. People in JKRs universe very seldom are all that they appear.

If Jo is suggesting that ONLY the pure of heart are capable of love, I have a big problem with that.

That wasn't what I got from that speech. What I got was that Harry had managed to keep from losing his capacity to love, despite all the horror he'd seen and endured, and that that was a good and praiseworthy thing, and the source of his particular strength. I can't see JKR endorsing the sort of "purity of heart" you're describing any more that she'd endorse purity of blood.

Re: one more thing

[ghilledhu.livejournal.com]

While I desperately want the next book, I'd honestly rather she not rush herself. Books 4 and 5 could have used another editorial sweep.

[seeliefey.livejournal.com]

Here's my thought as to how Snape is redeemable.

1) Dumbledore had a very "do whatever you must" attitude, evidenced by his orders to Harry. Snape's loyalty might be strong enough that he would not disobey Dumbledore's order to "protect Harry(protect Malfoy, get close to Snape, protect yourself, etc)"

2) We still don't know why Dumbledore trusted Snape implicitly. We have heard that he was sorry for what he had done in tipping off Voldemort, but its a weak reason, and not one I think JK Rowling is serious about.

3) Snape is with Malfoy and the Death Eaters, and Malfoy will need protecting.

4) Part of what makes Snape romantic is the fact that his history is clouded in mystery. We don't know if he's protecting someone or something through his actions.

The key to redeeming Snape is learning his motivations.

[andromakhe.livejournal.com]

I forget whose idea this was, but it's not mine. About the vow - Severus could possibly have gotten himself into trouble with Voldie, since killing Dumbledore pretty much makes an open announcement to the Order that hey, Snape's a Death Eater. This, in turn, destroys his chances of going back to spying on them, and that's what Voldie wants Snape for in the first place. Bella also confirms that Voldie had sent Snape to infiltrate Hogwarts. It seems out of character for Snape to burn his bridges this way. If it is loyalty to Dumbledore that made him so foolish, then I need more reason for it than that Dumbledore trusted him, because Voldemort trusts Snape, too. I sure hope Voldie's feeling generous and can find some other use for Snape, or else, Snape's in a really bad way with no allies.

Couldn't Snape have refused the last part of the Vow on the grounds that Voldie had chosen Draco and that was that? Or could he simply not resist Narcissa's pleading? For some odd reason, Narcissa deemed Snape likely to succeed in killing Dumbledore, unless the sisters knew of how serious Dumbledore's injury was.

I understand that refusal to kill Dumbledore might be taken as loyalty to him and in that regard, Snape could not refuse, but he still could have protested, right? Or not? We don't know how the Vow works or what happens to someone if they refuse a clause. The whole thing with the Vow was a betrayal of Voldemort, though, and I've now succeeded in confusing myself, which is not hard at the moment.

As for Dumbledore not trying to understand Snape, I have to agree with rikibeth. While it's true that Dumbledore defended him to the last, he also publicly humiliated Snape on a couple occasions and evidently did not respect him even in his youth. I think there are lots of times when Snape would have categorized Dumbledore's taking the Marauders' side as a slight to him personally, and you know how he feels about the Marauders now, even though they're mostly dead. Specifically, Severus' vehement objections to hiring Lupin as a professor and possibly citing his danger to other students appears to have not been given any serious consideration. Heck, I still wonder why we don't hear about other werewolves besides Lupin who had the privilege of going to Hogwarts. Or was it that Lupin was lucky enough to have normal parents who got him in? It's possible that werewolves got a Hogwarts letter and refused to come, too, but Snape was nearly bitten and then told he couldn't say anything about it. No consideration of his feelings, I think.

I like what you say about Snape's Slytherin status and how unlikely he is to die a noble and futile death and the idea of bringing down Voldie. I, too, do not believe he is a DE in principle.

I don't think Dumbledore would be the type to want to end suffering quickly. Perhaps the curse on the ring was killing him slowly, or else it was the poison in the basin. I don't know why it was important that Severus kill Dumbledore rather than let him die painfully, but it was important enough to tempt Snape back to his Dark Arts.